Obama: Government is ‘so much less corrupt than probably it’s ever been’

Former President Obama says in his just-launched literary-focused podcast that the federal government is “so much less corrupt” than it was in the past.

“People are always surprised when I tell them the federal government is so much less corrupt than probably it’s ever been, in terms of just pure bribes, or patronage or favors,” Obama said in a preview clip exclusively obtained by ITK from the 44th president’s new podcast, “A Great Book with Barack Obama.”

The six-episode series — in which Obama sits down with high-profile figures to chat about the “books that have profoundly shaped his worldview and our society” — premiered on Audible on Thursday.

In the third episode of the limited series, produced by Audible and the Obamas’ production company, Higher Ground, the ex-commander in chief sits down with Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Jill Lepore to discuss Robert Penn Warren’s 1946 novel “All the King’s Men.”

“It was interesting, as I was coming up through the state legislature, and then Congress and the presidency — you mentioned Lyndon Johnson, part of the reason that kind of cornering folks and hustling them for votes worked, it wasn’t just physical intimidation. It was like, ‘What do you need?'” Obama told Lepore while discussing the book about a fictional farmer-turned-populist governor’s rise and eventual downfall amid political corruption in the South.

“Part of what was interesting is that a lot of reforms that we think of as positive — pre-Watergate, post-Watergate — eliminated or greatly reduced the possibilities of maintaining those old political machines, and trading votes and doing favors,” Obama, 65, said.

“And it’s part of the reason why things got a little harder to get done because that was sort of some lubrication in a lot of Congress to help to bridge some of the ideological differences that were out there and get people to vote for things that weren’t that comfortable,” he said.

Saying she agreed with Obama, Lepore replied, “I think there’s a degree to which that kind of political machine — I don’t mean to whitewash it in any way — but was kind of crucial to civil society.”

“Like what happened in the Progressive Era, among the many good government reforms that these people were making — campaign finance reform and protections for voters — yeah, it did kill the political machine. But what replaced the political machine was the political consultants industry,” Lepore, a staff writer for The New Yorker, said.

Other episodes of Obama’s podcast include conversations with actor Tom Hanks about “Gilead,” by Marilynne Robinson; a discussion of James Baldwin’s “The Fire Next Time” with author and journalist Ta-Nehisi Coates; and chats with former White House national security adviser Ben Rhodes and authors Percival Everett and Lauren Groff.